Abdallah (nologokun) wrote in anti_zionists,
Abdallah
nologokun
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Hello everybody, my name's Abdallah and I've been an anti-zionist since I was 16. Living in the United States has made it difficult to learn the realities of the Arab-Israeli conflict and the government's part in it, as well as to learn of any unjustified actions of the U.S. national security state.

I know this might sound a bit obvious to members of this club, but I think Palestinians are the ones who have the moral and historical right to the land that is now occupied by the Zionists. I also support nearly every form of resistance on the part of the Palestinians, whether it be peaceful or aggressive.

I hope to be able to discuss the question of Zionism, Palestinian statehood and other issues with the members of this community.
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Hello and welcome, Abdallah. :)

And Ramadan Kareem. :)

I agree with everything you said. I believe in the Palestinians' right to ALL of what is now Israel, i.e. the pre-1948 situation.

I, too, support any form of resistance by the Palestinians, and consider it their moral and legal right against an occupation that has massacred their loved ones, dehumanised them, and so on, for more than 50 years.

What are your thoughts on the idea of a binational state? Do you believe in it? I don't think the Jews in Israel will somehow disappear. Do you think there should be a Palestinian state alongside a Jewish state? Do you think it would be just and fair? I think it's only a way for the Zionists to get away with their land theft. The know that the resistance movement is growing, and so they want to get away with as much land as they can. I don't think Palestinians should accept the "disengagement" and be "satisfied" with that, because it will only give the Israelis the green light to further prevent any Palestinians from crossing into Israel - because now they have their "own state." So what will happen to the millions of Palestinian refugees outside of Palestine? Where will they go?
Oh, and you might want to check out free_palestine too. ;)
If there were a binational state then maybe the Palestinians could control the West Bank and Gaza Strip, but there wouldn't be enough room for the refugees that are living in other countries in the region. But you're right, the zionists aren't just going to dissappear, they've colonized the land of another people and now they don't have anywhere to go. But it's not right for them to stay there because others have a great need for it, the refugees. While a binational state with Palestinians controlling the West Bank and Gaza Strip would be a good "stepping stone," I think there really won't be a total solution to the injustice of what has happened to the Palestinians untill they can have countrol of what they had before 1948, like you said.
Well, I think those who immigrated to the country rather than being born there should leave. It's only fair. They had STOLEN the land. So it's only fair that they face the consequences now nad LEAVE. At any rate, reparation payments to Palestinians are a MUST regardless of what solution is followed. But if there is a binational state, keep in mind that Israel will be controlling the gaza strip and west bank borders, including the gaza strip border with egypt... how is that sovereignty for Palestinians? also, i don't think any palestinians will be allowed to cross from west bank into israel proper anyway.. even if there is a palestinian state... unless the racists, zionists in israel are destroyed, there will always be war.
Oh yes, this must definately leave :) And they did steal the land from the palestinians. I find it ironic that a group of people that was just coming out of the holocaust launched an occupation that seems so similar to a genocide campaign.

There will always be war..occupiers don't leave a land by free will, they leave after they are forced to do it. It's not in the nature of a colonizer to abandon his colony if he has sufficient control over it, the colonizer must be made to feel that conditions in his colony are so unbearable that he wishes to find another place to live.

I don't mean to go off topoic, but I believe this is also true for the Iraqis and the U.S. occupation.
they definately must leave*

By the way, do you know where I could find trasnlated lyrics to Zahrat Elmada'en? I want to post them on my website ^_^
What is the relation between the state of Israel and Islam?

When I went through Qur'an, already in the first sura I encountered a problem, which is not to be solved easily. The book says that Allah leads the Muslim people in the way of justice, not the way of those with whom he's angry. According to a widely accepted interpretation these are the Jews. During his time Muhammad had to be in contact with the Jews and he probably knew their history as well. It is a history of losing their own country, losing their own identity. At least that is what the Bible says, for example the Deuteronomy. The loss is a consequence of idolatry and faithlessness of the Jewish people. To cut a long story short the God's anger results in banishment to exile and vice versa – it would be the God's good will if the Jews could return. Muhammad knows the Jewish history and reflects it in his first sura. However, he speaks only of the God's anger. Obviously, when the state of Israel came to existence a problem appeared. That was such an unexpected event that the Qur'an didn't reflect it in any way. According to the logic of the first sura (which is being quoted many times a day in prayers) the Jews should always live without a country of their own and they should always keep the state of diaspora.

However, the reality is different. In 1948 the state of Israel was founded. The stage of seeking Jewish identity ended. In my opinion the mere foundation of the state of Israel puts the Islamic holy book, Qur'an, in doubt. Despite the fact the God is supposed to be angry with them, the Jews have their own state. At this point a conflict appears – a conflict between reality and sort of an illusion stated by Qur'an. The Israeli state touches Islam in the most sensitive point it has: the truthfulness of Qur'an.

Palestinian Muslims pray to Allah to lead them the right way of justice. Only few meters away the Jews have their summer resorts, hotels and supermarkets. But most importantly they have their state, for which the Palestinians still only wait. Do you notice that paradox? Not any more can be the God's anger identified by the measure of having or not having a state. Therefore it is not a conflict between the Israeli and Palestinian people. It is a conflict between Israel and Islam. The existence of Israeli state proves Islam wrong. If the Muslims accepted its existence they would betray their own identity based on Qur'an. It may be said that these are the reasons leading directly to the hostile foreign policy of most of the Arabic countries to the state of Israel.

The situation in the Middle East is no doubt dismal. The Palestinian nation works as an excuse for Arabic countries to carry on their anti-Israel campaign. One example for all, they use it to prove Zionism to be wrong. The nation is being used in a completely different struggle – struggle for power...

In case my reasoning is correct, none of the Arab countries will fight for a foundation of an independent Palestinian state. The excuse for anti-Israel policy would be gone. Obviously and naturally the Islamic parties play a key role in all Arabic countries. But those will never agree with the existence of an Israeli state, exactly for reasons I tried to point out in this article. The situation in the Middle East will escalate in wider violence on both sides of the conflict.

I do not agree with killing on any side. But Zionism does not necessarily mean the acceptance of any decision made by the Israeli government. Zionism as an ideology means to say yes to the biblical messages about Jews returning to their country, which is a fact a kind reader can prove to himself by reading the Bible.

Karel Sykora, Czech Republic, Europe
karelwriter@yahoo.co.uk
the worst article i have ever read. it shows how you know nothing about what the Qur'an is and what its objectives are. oh and it also shows that you don't know much about the conflict.

i seriously hope you're never published. :)